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	<title>Comments for God&#039;s Way Works</title>
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	<link>http://edwincrozier.com</link>
	<description>For a better life and a better eternity</description>
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		<title>Comment on I Don&#8217;t Need to Guard Anyone&#8217;s Humility by Edwin Crozier</title>
		<link>http://edwincrozier.com/2010/08/31/i-dont-need-to-guard-anyones-humility/comment-page-1/#comment-2930</link>
		<dc:creator>Edwin Crozier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 20:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwincrozier.com/?p=2000#comment-2930</guid>
		<description>Hey Joel, since you point out that you know this isn&#039;t what I was talking about, there is no need to argue. 

Thanks for chiming in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Joel, since you point out that you know this isn&#8217;t what I was talking about, there is no need to argue. </p>
<p>Thanks for chiming in.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I Don&#8217;t Need to Guard Anyone&#8217;s Humility by Joel Williams</title>
		<link>http://edwincrozier.com/2010/08/31/i-dont-need-to-guard-anyones-humility/comment-page-1/#comment-2928</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 17:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwincrozier.com/?p=2000#comment-2928</guid>
		<description>Just to keep you in your place ;), let me point out one verse on the topic of safeguarding other people&#039;s humility.  1 Timothy 3:6 says that elders must not be novices &quot;lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.&quot;  This is a rule for elders, but it is good wisdom for all positions of leadership.

I realize this is not what you were talking about in this article.  As people are growing, they do need praise to help give them confidence.  But I think the title of the lesson is missing something if you say that we are not to guard anyone&#039;s humility.  We need to be careful about putting stumbling blocks before our brethren and leading them into pride is just as bad as leading them into any other sin.

I also believe that the father should be a &quot;guardian&quot; of his children&#039;s humility.  Although I am not a father, I remember that my father always encouraged us to be humble (still does) -- this is not the same as tearing us down.

Sorry I never comment when I agree with everything. :)

God bless,
Joel Williams</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to keep you in your place <img src='http://edwincrozier.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> , let me point out one verse on the topic of safeguarding other people&#8217;s humility.  1 Timothy 3:6 says that elders must not be novices &#8220;lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.&#8221;  This is a rule for elders, but it is good wisdom for all positions of leadership.</p>
<p>I realize this is not what you were talking about in this article.  As people are growing, they do need praise to help give them confidence.  But I think the title of the lesson is missing something if you say that we are not to guard anyone&#8217;s humility.  We need to be careful about putting stumbling blocks before our brethren and leading them into pride is just as bad as leading them into any other sin.</p>
<p>I also believe that the father should be a &#8220;guardian&#8221; of his children&#8217;s humility.  Although I am not a father, I remember that my father always encouraged us to be humble (still does) &#8212; this is not the same as tearing us down.</p>
<p>Sorry I never comment when I agree with everything. <img src='http://edwincrozier.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>God bless,<br />
Joel Williams</p>
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		<title>Comment on Love Yourself Today by Don't Be Rude-Love Yourself &#124; God&#039;s Way Works</title>
		<link>http://edwincrozier.com/2010/04/05/love-yourself-today/comment-page-1/#comment-2917</link>
		<dc:creator>Don't Be Rude-Love Yourself &#124; God&#039;s Way Works</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2010 12:03:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwincrozier.com/?p=1730#comment-2917</guid>
		<description>[...] smack in the middle of one of my favorite series ever. We started some time ago by learning that God expects us to love ourselves. Now, we’re going through the definition of love in I Corinthians 13:4-7 to help us understand [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] smack in the middle of one of my favorite series ever. We started some time ago by learning that God expects us to love ourselves. Now, we’re going through the definition of love in I Corinthians 13:4-7 to help us understand [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Do Not Boast or Be Arrogant&#8211;Love Yourself by Love Yourself Today &#124; God&#039;s Way Works</title>
		<link>http://edwincrozier.com/2010/08/09/do-not-boast-or-be-arrogant-love-yourself/comment-page-1/#comment-2904</link>
		<dc:creator>Love Yourself Today &#124; God&#039;s Way Works</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 13:36:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwincrozier.com/?p=1910#comment-2904</guid>
		<description>[...] Do Not Boast or Be Arrogant [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Do Not Boast or Be Arrogant [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Do Not Envy Others&#8211;Love Yourself by Do Not Boast or Be Arrogant--Love Yourself &#124; God&#039;s Way Works</title>
		<link>http://edwincrozier.com/2010/08/02/do-not-envy-others-love-yourself/comment-page-1/#comment-2903</link>
		<dc:creator>Do Not Boast or Be Arrogant--Love Yourself &#124; God&#039;s Way Works</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 13:34:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwincrozier.com/?p=1900#comment-2903</guid>
		<description>[...] worth far more than the shallow comparisons with other people whether those comparisons lead you to envy, as we discussed last week, or to boasting and arrogance. Don&#8217;t sacrifice the truly healthy love God has granted you for [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] worth far more than the shallow comparisons with other people whether those comparisons lead you to envy, as we discussed last week, or to boasting and arrogance. Don&#8217;t sacrifice the truly healthy love God has granted you for [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Skit Guys Give Something to Think about Regarding Modern Day Idols by Idolatry, It&#8217;s Not Just About Golden Calves Anymore : InGodsImage.com</title>
		<link>http://edwincrozier.com/2010/08/23/the-skit-guys-give-something-to-think-about-regarding-modern-day-idols/comment-page-1/#comment-2877</link>
		<dc:creator>Idolatry, It&#8217;s Not Just About Golden Calves Anymore : InGodsImage.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Aug 2010 19:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwincrozier.com/?p=1966#comment-2877</guid>
		<description>[...] ht: God&#8217;s Way Works [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ht: God&#8217;s Way Works [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;Do Hard Things&#8221; by Read And Discuss &#8220;Do Hard Things&#8221; With Jason : InGodsImage.com</title>
		<link>http://edwincrozier.com/2008/12/29/do-hard-things/comment-page-1/#comment-2827</link>
		<dc:creator>Read And Discuss &#8220;Do Hard Things&#8221; With Jason : InGodsImage.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 19:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwincrozier.com/?p=478#comment-2827</guid>
		<description>[...] On Tuesday, September 7, my plan is to post some thoughts on the first two chapters of Do Hard Things: A Teenage Rebellion Against Low Expectations and I&#8217;d love to have you read and discuss along with me.  I first heard about Do Hard Things from my good friend Edwin Crozier: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] On Tuesday, September 7, my plan is to post some thoughts on the first two chapters of Do Hard Things: A Teenage Rebellion Against Low Expectations and I&#8217;d love to have you read and discuss along with me.  I first heard about Do Hard Things from my good friend Edwin Crozier: [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Healthy Congregation or a Toxic Congregation by Edwin Crozier</title>
		<link>http://edwincrozier.com/2010/08/12/a-healthy-congregation-or-a-toxic-congregation/comment-page-1/#comment-2819</link>
		<dc:creator>Edwin Crozier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 15:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwincrozier.com/?p=1924#comment-2819</guid>
		<description>Hey Nathan, I have read that book, but it has been a really long time. I guess I need to dust it off and read it again. Obviously, as we grow as Christians, we&#039;ll conform to the image of Christ. So there will be similarities. I think the issue is one of control. If we think someone is stepping out of line, we want to bring the hammer down to get them back in line. Usually, however, it just causes them either to dig in their heals and rebel all the more or it strips them of their freedom in Christ and their relationship with Christ becomes more about fear of getting blasted than being loved by God.

Gayle, thanks for adding your perspective. I&#039;ve also read the Bradshaw book, but it was sometime last year. I need to get it out again and read it. I think your assessment is correct. I think you hit the nail on the head when you bring up the idea of shaming someone into obeying. When we do that in the congregation, we are not helping someone grow in Christ. We are forcing them to conform to us.

One of the big problem is we think that we have discovered all truth and if someone even remotely questions it, we fear for them and start trying to get them back in line using any means we can. In this way even noble goals are destroyed by improper means. I know it is scary letting everyone question and pursue their questions. We are afraid we will lose control and the church will be thrown into anarchy. However, we need to learn to trust God and the truth. His gospel really can save honest people who question. We just need to let God do His work through the Gospel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Nathan, I have read that book, but it has been a really long time. I guess I need to dust it off and read it again. Obviously, as we grow as Christians, we&#8217;ll conform to the image of Christ. So there will be similarities. I think the issue is one of control. If we think someone is stepping out of line, we want to bring the hammer down to get them back in line. Usually, however, it just causes them either to dig in their heals and rebel all the more or it strips them of their freedom in Christ and their relationship with Christ becomes more about fear of getting blasted than being loved by God.</p>
<p>Gayle, thanks for adding your perspective. I&#8217;ve also read the Bradshaw book, but it was sometime last year. I need to get it out again and read it. I think your assessment is correct. I think you hit the nail on the head when you bring up the idea of shaming someone into obeying. When we do that in the congregation, we are not helping someone grow in Christ. We are forcing them to conform to us.</p>
<p>One of the big problem is we think that we have discovered all truth and if someone even remotely questions it, we fear for them and start trying to get them back in line using any means we can. In this way even noble goals are destroyed by improper means. I know it is scary letting everyone question and pursue their questions. We are afraid we will lose control and the church will be thrown into anarchy. However, we need to learn to trust God and the truth. His gospel really can save honest people who question. We just need to let God do His work through the Gospel.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Healthy Congregation or a Toxic Congregation by Gayle Dvorak</title>
		<link>http://edwincrozier.com/2010/08/12/a-healthy-congregation-or-a-toxic-congregation/comment-page-1/#comment-2816</link>
		<dc:creator>Gayle Dvorak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 04:24:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwincrozier.com/?p=1924#comment-2816</guid>
		<description>It is sad, but every person that I&#039;ve talked to that I can think of who fell away from the Lord during their teenage years or early twenties, fell away due to that type of toxic environment in their home and congregation.  It&#039;s the opposite of love, and they &quot;get that,&quot; but because they have never been trained in love, they don&#039;t know how to combat it, and it&#039;s very discouraging and suffocating, so they leave.   But, they know it&#039;s not love.  They know it&#039;s wrong, so they label those authority figures hypocrites, and they want love, so they go searching for it elsewhere.  Of course, they could find it in the Word of God and learn from Him and become an example to the church, but that doesn&#039;t tend to happen.  I can&#039;t think of a problem in the church that causes more of a stumbling block than this.  We sure don&#039;t see this in the Jerusalem church, from what I can see.  There is a book called &quot;Healing the Shame that Binds You&quot; by John Bradshaw.  It&#039;s written similar to the book you referred to including him using clients&#039; foul language.   He recognizes and has answers for this problem.  Too bad the church can&#039;t seem to get and understand this toxic way of living.  Parents tend to parent the way they were parented, and the cycle repeats itself.  We seem to have bought some message that we should shame our children into obeying.   We parent and &quot;run&quot; the church out of fear...fear that there will be differing opinions and our way won&#039;t be followed or we&#039;ll be rejected, and I&#039;m sure much more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is sad, but every person that I&#8217;ve talked to that I can think of who fell away from the Lord during their teenage years or early twenties, fell away due to that type of toxic environment in their home and congregation.  It&#8217;s the opposite of love, and they &#8220;get that,&#8221; but because they have never been trained in love, they don&#8217;t know how to combat it, and it&#8217;s very discouraging and suffocating, so they leave.   But, they know it&#8217;s not love.  They know it&#8217;s wrong, so they label those authority figures hypocrites, and they want love, so they go searching for it elsewhere.  Of course, they could find it in the Word of God and learn from Him and become an example to the church, but that doesn&#8217;t tend to happen.  I can&#8217;t think of a problem in the church that causes more of a stumbling block than this.  We sure don&#8217;t see this in the Jerusalem church, from what I can see.  There is a book called &#8220;Healing the Shame that Binds You&#8221; by John Bradshaw.  It&#8217;s written similar to the book you referred to including him using clients&#8217; foul language.   He recognizes and has answers for this problem.  Too bad the church can&#8217;t seem to get and understand this toxic way of living.  Parents tend to parent the way they were parented, and the cycle repeats itself.  We seem to have bought some message that we should shame our children into obeying.   We parent and &#8220;run&#8221; the church out of fear&#8230;fear that there will be differing opinions and our way won&#8217;t be followed or we&#8217;ll be rejected, and I&#8217;m sure much more.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Healthy Congregation or a Toxic Congregation by Gayle Dvorak</title>
		<link>http://edwincrozier.com/2010/08/12/a-healthy-congregation-or-a-toxic-congregation/comment-page-1/#comment-2815</link>
		<dc:creator>Gayle Dvorak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 03:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwincrozier.com/?p=1924#comment-2815</guid>
		<description>I think that analogy is right on the mark!   I also think that is why God requires an elder to have been successful in raising a healthy family.  To &quot;train&quot; children in the toxic way takes &quot;other-control&quot; rather than self-control, impatience rather than patience, and a host of other character flaws.  To be an elder requires a good character which includes self-control and patience.  If an elder doesn&#039;t have those good character traits, he&#039;ll lead the congregation in the same toxic way as he led his family. It&#039;s sad that there are congregations where members are not allowed to speak the whole truth of the Word of God, because elders are afraid the members might follow truth instead of tradition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that analogy is right on the mark!   I also think that is why God requires an elder to have been successful in raising a healthy family.  To &#8220;train&#8221; children in the toxic way takes &#8220;other-control&#8221; rather than self-control, impatience rather than patience, and a host of other character flaws.  To be an elder requires a good character which includes self-control and patience.  If an elder doesn&#8217;t have those good character traits, he&#8217;ll lead the congregation in the same toxic way as he led his family. It&#8217;s sad that there are congregations where members are not allowed to speak the whole truth of the Word of God, because elders are afraid the members might follow truth instead of tradition.</p>
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